Helping young people get degrees that will lead them to richer, more rewarding lives sounds like a great idea.
Who wouldn’t like it?
Please take just a moment and read this because some very reasonable people are questioning it’s wisdom.
1) There is an increasing body of evidence that people are better students after some work experience. If taxpayer dollars are going to be spent, would a better “bang for the buck” to spend them on a national service program that delivers some kind of measurable service to the economy and gives students an opportunity to focus their goals before heading to college?
2) There are a number of online programs of study now that are affordable and may be a better fit for a student who wants to work part-time. Class schedules at traditional colleges make working while going to school difficult or sometimes impossible, especially for students with learning differences like A.D.D., who may need additional time or help.
3) College students do have a higher probability of getting and keeping a job. But why is that? While the value of a college education for a doctor, lawyer or engineer seems beyond question, should we take a long hard look at where college degrees are really necessary and perhaps provide tax incentives for employers who are willing to hire someone who looks good in person, if not on paper?
4) “There’s nothing wrong with giving the Obama plan a shot” you might say. I fear there may be. Several European economies are currently straining to stay alive under a system of entitlements that their economies simply can not support. I think we have reached a fork in the road (and we have the intellect and imagination available) to critically examine this before saddling our economy with another debt that may be as outmoded as giving Social Security to people at 65, when they now, thankfully, may expect to live another 15 to even 30 years, or more.
Here’s one of my favorite and I think most forward thinking articles on the subject: Why We Won’t Need College in 15 Years . I hope you’ll take 2 minutes to read it and then give me your thoughts.
I’m not suggesting that everyone should go the way of Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs. I think that path is limited, to a few geniuses.
I simply think that all of this deserves some debate and creative thinking – one of the skills I think colleges teach best – before rushing to fund another government program which may be well intentioned but could have questionable results.
What do you think? Please tell me in the comments below.
Thank you,
Sarah Palin would have a better chance of getting this pass congress than Obama. I can only assume his suggesting this was mery pandering to a specific voting bloc. It’s really a mute point.
john, I concur. Sarah Palin could get it passed much easier.
Lol Robert, I didn’t say that, John Dieb did. As always, thanks for the thoughts.
God Bless you for your boldness Jane. With out folks as yourself. this country would be lost ma’am…
Jim
Thank you Jimmy, I am just thankful to live in a country where discussion is encouraged!
I think there are those who have the knowledge, skills, and ability from on the job training. If further education is needed or desired, possibly this program could be rolled out in conjunction with one’s employer. Are we headed in the direction that a minimum two year degree is as essential as a high school diploma or GED? I agree that empowering those who can’t afford college or were told that they didn’t need it should have every opportunity. Maybe there is a way to have it in conjunction with one’s employer and having the student be financially responsible if the GPA falls below 2.5. I have not read the entire proposal for this program, but am in agreement that taxpayers should not be responsible for the education of those who will not use it.
Robin, thank you for taking time to comment. I think your idea about the employer is interesting. Thanks again, Jane
I think most of your points are conjecture. Europe has much deeper problems then allowing it’s young citizens to get an education. Europe is also the seat of more balanced thinking, certainly less tainted by extreme religiosity that the states, and certainly now our superiors in tech and infrastructure since the now-leading faction in our government is suppressing education and ignoring our countries infrastructure all together. This plan demands that the participants work, so that is a non-issue. And as we see by the released agenda for the newly instated worst Congress of the century, they have no intension whatsoever “to spend (tax dollars) on a national service program that delivers some kind of measurable service to the economy and gives students an opportunity to focus their goals before heading to college” The Republicans don’t even want to grant the same interest rates to students that corporations are allowed. We should be doing more to educate the entire nation than disperse it only to those whose parents can afford it (which leads to another kind of problem when only rich white kids get to have an education). Education on a wide scale can affect everything from population growth to spousal abuse to the abortion issue. If only people were taught at a young age that there were options, then the choices they make might be more beneficial to them as well as to society as a whole.
Rene, you and I are probably not going to agree on this, but I appreciate your comments. You give people some great points to think about. Thank you again, Jane
Consider all aspects. But let’s not saddle our kids with loans which they can’t pay back in a lifetime.
Thank you Lynn, you always have a balanced points of view, in my opinion.
College is not a right, it is a privilege. No one is holding a gun to their heads making them borrow more than they can afford. If you cannot afford college, then get a job, save money and go when you can afford it. It is not my responsibility to pay for your college or healthcare through my taxes. Obama is just pandering to his base of liberals. The new liberal meme will be, Republicans are against education.
Thank you Tammy, appreciate your thoughts!
i totally agree with you Jane. I spent 4 years of my Army life in Berlin Germany. A place where college was free as well as healthcare. Look at Germany today. The entire country is going broke. Sometimes doing too much for someone is a bad thing. I was brought up to earn your own way. Hand outs are intended for those in need.
We are raising a lot of lazy children that believe everything should be handed to them. Call me old fashion but everything I own has come from working, not hand outs.
Now do I believe college students need help? Yes I do. Lower interest rates on student loans to a rate they can actually repay the loan. I heard a young doctor say the other day that he can’t even get a mortgage for a house because he owes the government so much for student loans. So, drop the rates or assist those that are going into a specialty field ie MD or something of this magnitude
Thanks for the perspective Robert.
Although you do make very valid points against this program, and I respect those, as a single parent to a daughter who just received her associates degree from a community college I have to disagree in part. She did receive some government assistance, but the rest of it was on me and her part-time job. And with that she was able to get her associates and now is attending UT nursing school. If this program had existed when she graduated high school, it would’ve helped me a great deal, I would not have had to spend thousands of dollars on tuition and books in order for her to follow her dream of being a nurse, without her being saddled with student loans, before she went on to the university of Texas. This program also would’ve helped her finish sooner, into years instead of three. Because she had to work during school, it took her longer. I’m sure it will need some refining, but I believe it is a great idea for those willing to work for it and continue good grades during the program. Thank you!
Thank you for sharing those thoughts Beth, as I said, this is how I (and all of us) learn. Best, Jane
Jane, I am truly shocked at your comments and those others I have read opposing a program of educating our young. The education system in the state of Texas is in dismal need of repair. By the way, who pays for the prison system? Welfare? You want your tax dollars spent there or better a program of hope that encourages those who cannot afford college to get a good beginning to a college education. There are many young and talented people who simply get lost out there because the education they desperately want and need is not financially available. I suppose I should not be surprised since higher education seems to be for the wealthy. They can afford to educate their kid who can graduate with no college debt and pursue many more avenues. Don’t worry about the impoverished, if they cannot prevail too bad. We can give handouts to other countries, spend millions upon millions on foreign countries who will never pay us back but we cannot support a program of education that gives our next generation a better way of living, earning, and passing that on to their following generations? Some of these people would not oppose it if they had to walk in the shoes of those who have been there. Oh yes, I forgot it’s just the American way. People who have a voice, who are respected and well-liked should think twice about posting this type of opinion. Very disappointed.
Rose I don’t agree with you, but I truly appreciate your taking the time and effort to write such detailed comments. Best, jane
Rose, it isn’t just wealthy people that oppose this. To imply that’s the case is misleading and false. Not many details have come out yet which actually makes this a thought or an idea more than a plan. There are so many things we need to learn about this and it amazes me you can support it without knowing those details. Our economy is already at a crossroads. If money grew on trees there are lots of things I would have the government provide us. Unfortunately it doesn’t and we are borrowing money at a record pace and we can’t keep up. No matter how well intentioned the idea, eventually you burden the economy too much and it breaks. We are nearing that point.
Thanks Chris, I am interested to see the details also.
I agree Rosa. If they (US government or state government ) don’t try and spend their money on community colleges for kids who can’t afford it , then they’ll be spending it on jails and prisons. I think it should be something each individual state pays for, but through a WORK PROGRAM at the colleges. When I went to a university, most of my employment, was also through them. If they’d had a program where, you work and get either free education or a huge percentage off, that would be the way to go.
Also, many of those government loan and grant programs are very difficult to qualify for. Almost to the point of being ridiculous. Another help for young people would be to go back to an apprentice system. Yes, college is not for everyone. So, if the states and or government gave employers tax breaks, for hiring young people and training them and certifying them in a career, that would be a great solution too.
Now, that the government have , virtually, endorsed corporate greed, without pensions and benefits, people should be encourage to get college degree. It will be the only way for them to afford to save money for retirement. Also, why should anyone want to work past 65 ? Really. IF one worked till they were 80, then who could enjoy retirement. On the contrary, make those greedy CEOs give up some of their ridiculous wages, that they now make because they took benefits away from employees, lower the retirement to 55 and open up jobs for young people. Those 55 and over who have worked 25 or more years should then be able to enjoy their senior years.
Jeannie, thanks for taking the time to explain your ideas. We all benefit from it. Sincerely, Jane
Thank you for the option to comment on your forum.
Oh my goodness Sharon, thank you for taking time to do so. Best, Jane
My first thought when I heard about it was that it would lower the value of having a degree if everyone was just given their tuition for free, maybe because I have a degree and had to pay for it. It seems like kids wouldn’t see it as something valuable if it’s just given to them. Kind of like your first car. The people just given a car may not take as good of care of it as someone that had to work for the money to buy their car or see their parents struggle to buy it for them. I will be interested to see all the opinions on this.
Katrina, thank you so much. I had not given that much thought, but you bring up a great point.
Girl I feel like you should be careful what you ask for….everyone has an opinion.
But since you did ask, in addition to the good points you made above, and since everyone else did, I’m gonna go ahead and take the opportunity to vent…
You know, I admit that as a single mom of one daughter that just finished her 1st semester at NCTC and one half way through her sophomore year of high school, my first instinct was, “Heck yeah! That would help me!”
But it’s really not all about me, I had to step back and think about this….who would it really help? Maybe I wouldn’t be making that monthly tuition payment, but my taxes would increase to cover it and I’m still eating beans and rice once a week…
And who would really qualify? Can our country really afford to take on more debt to give handouts? We already have way too many “programs” that are sold to us as good intentions, but the only people really benefitting from them are those that take advantage of them.
(For instance, I have a close friend that works her TAIL off to support her daughter and pay her mortgage and utilities, but clears less than $15k a year. She is FORCED to apply for insurance that she cannot afford and does not qualify for any assistance or even Medicaid. She never gets sick and has been to the dr maybe 3x in 5 years, but the best rate she can get is with a $6000 deductible??? What good would that ever even do her? She’d be paying full price out of pocket, PLUS giving $300 a month to for insurance she’ll never even use! But the woman down the street with 3 illegitimate kids and a brand new car and perfect manicure who has never worked a day in her life and is PROUD of it, collects welfare and gets free insurance? Really?!? Take some freaking responsibility! Why should the rest of us be paying her bills while we have to scrape by pay check to pay check, work extra hours, and often go to work sick because we cannot afford not to? How is that even right??)
My other concern would be around a good part of today’s youth, and I am by no means implying this applies to all, because I know there are a lot of good kids out there who would appreciate this opportunity and work hard. But we all know there are many who have no respect for authority because no one holds them accountable for anything. They “expect” or feel “entitled” to whatever they want or what someone else has, regardless of the price they may have paid to get it. Those kids tend to be the ones who don’t appreciate or take care of anything they do have. They’d blow off classes and skate by, putting in little effort but then expect to be handed an executive position and six-figure salary just becaus they showed up once in a while and made at least a 2.0. Or maybe they’d take the free ride, then instead of looking for a job, they’ll continue to expect someone else to support them and become the lady down the street anyway, who feeds her kids peanut butter everyday and qualifies for free school lunches, but pays rent, car payment and weekly acrylic fills with her welfare check!
Dave Ramsey says, “A college eucation is a privilege not a right, as parents we do not OWE our children a free ride to college.” If we can afford to give them one or at least help, then by all means yes it is a good investment! But at 18, when they start wanting to be treated as adults, our children also need to learn to take responsibility for their own lives. If I don’t owe my own children an education, then I certainly don’t owe anyone else’s child an education. I wouldn’t expect anyone else to pay my child’s way either. I did pay for my daughter’s first semester, but she is having to help with the second, and you know what? She’s proud of the fact that she’s contributing, and is taking it seriously and working that much harder to succeed. Yes I would love it if she qualified for assistance or was offered a free ride, but it’s not all about me. I think we should consider what’s really right for our country as a whole? We were not founded on handouts and free rides. I think there are better uses for my hard earned tax dollars than taking on that much more on top of other already failing programs. Maybe start with revamping those and cutting taxes so that there aren’t so many people that need assistance to begin with. I could of course continue to ramble, but I won’t. As much as I’d rather my kids (and my own pocket) get a free 2 year ride, no I don’t necessarily agree with this idea. JMO
Wow. Wow, what a powerful comment. I’m going to have to read this several time to digest it all. Thank you so much, Jane
Is there really a lady down the street getting a welfare check with 3 illegitimate children , a. New car and get acrylics ever week or were you speaking hypothetically. Just asking. Thanks
Thanks for asking Belinda. We’ll see, Jane
The students are less likely to appreciate the opportunity and work hard if they have not paid anything.
It’s a complicated question Chrysti. That’s a great point. Thanks for the comment!
I don’t understand the concept of entitlements. In fact, it angers and confuses me greatly. I was raised to work…work for everything you get. Neither of my parents went to college. ..but both were very successful in the business world. My father a self taught engineer worked his way up the ladder starting as an oil rig rough neck…then to engineering where he has 13 patents with Halliburton to his name…then to upper level management when he retired after 28 years. My mother a housewife when I was young, later went to work as a recruiter for a large construction company…later opened her own recruiting firm…then later started another business for which I am now running. It’s called drive. ..determination. ..you don’t do well just because someone “gives” you a free education. ..you do well if you have WORK ETHIC. MEANING YOU EARN EVERY THING YOU GET IN THIS WORLD. This is something that is taught and passed down through generations…not something you get automatically if someone gives you a free ride. I’m not rich…i make a comfortable living that now allows me to pay for my children’s college education. I run the company that I helped my mother start 29 years ago. My son will graduate with honors from UNT in the spring…he has worked full time throughout to support himself. ..and he did it in 4 and a half years. That’s drive…that’s determination. ..i know he will pass this WORK ETHIC on to his children when he has a family. No free ride…just work. That’s the way you do it. That’s what I was taught.
Hi Ronda, it sounds like you were given some really great values, and not only did you benefit but so will your son. Congratulations! And thank you for commenting, Jane
There are already programs(financial aid and scholarships) in place for those that who cannot afford college. Yes it takes some time and effort to fill out the mountain of forms, but the money is there for those who truly need it and those willing to get the grades. Any student with great grades will have an abundance of scholarships available. The last thing this country needs is another nanny state program that we cannot afford. Obama is just pandering to his base and then he will accuse the Republicans of being against education. Kinda like the phoney war on women.
I haven’t looked into all of the aid already available Tammy and I need to, thank you for bringing it up. Jane
Cannot is ONE word!
Hi Meredith, thanks for the comment. Actually if you look at Oxford Dictionary, both are acceptable, it depends on the usage.
Thanks again, Jane
Jane, I respect and appreciate your views and opinions on everything from fashion to politics; however, on this issue we may not see through the same lens. It isn’t that I agree entirely with President Obama’s plan for paid community college but I would ask you to reconsider some of your points. You can argue it from an entitlement, welfare, and burden on society perspective but I find some of the other points irrelevant. Online study is not for everyone and many students need the design and structure of the classroom to excel. The structure of the classroom in most colleges, community and otherwise, provides a schedule that allows students to work. In fact, research would suggest students who work during their college days excel. I know very few students today who do not have some type of job, whether attending a four year university, community college or graduate school. Our colleges and universities also provide students who have learning differences, such as A.D.D., an environment and resources they need to be better students and accomplish the goals set before them. I am still a firm believer that education opens doors. In a perfect world this would be available for all who desire to have it.
Thank you for such a respectful post and argument Greta, I really appreciate it! You make some good points. I also am a great believer in education. I just think it may be wise to look at alternatives before putting money into a new program. If you notice I said “Why I oppose the Obama community college plan RIGHT NOW” I simply need to see some more information and discussion and yours is great! Thanks again, Jane